In Conversation with Nicola Turner
Image from www.nicolaturner.art
Many of you already know how much I enjoy talking with (and learning from) a variety of creatives and storytellers, and to collaborate with the incredibly talented team at Welsh National Opera is such a pleasure. I will be attending the touring show of Death in Venice when it reaches the Bristol Hippodrome in April and following up with a review of the show and the whole experience of my very first visit to the opera. I was also offered the chance to interview a key member of the creative team, designer Nicola Turner. Whether you’re completely new to opera or just curious to find out more, I hope you will find this as interesting as I did! I’d love you to also keep an eye out for my review of the show coming soon. Thanks to Welsh National Opera and Sophie Revell from the WNO Press team for the opportunity to collaborate, and of course to Nicola for her time and insight.
Nicola Turner is a UK artist based in Bath. With a background in set and costume design, she has over twenty years international experience. Nicola graduated from Central St Martins School of Art & Design and has designed for The Royal Opera House, San Francisco Opera, Nashville Ballet, Scottish Ballet, Royal Shakespeare Company, National Theatre and Sydney Opera House, where she was the recipient of a Green Room Award and Helpmann Award. In 2019 she completed an MA in Fine Art at Bath Spa University.
At the start of the year, Welsh National Opera reached out to me about its Spring 2024 season, which includes a tour of Britten’s Death in Venice, inspired by the original Thomas Mann novella released in 1912. Death in Venice was a daring work for its time; it’s a story about obsession, impulse, art, and beauty. It tells the story of an ennobled writer who visits Venice and is uplifted and then increasingly obsessed by the sight of a boy in a family of Polish tourists – Tadzio. Mann’s original intention was to write about “passion as confusion and degradation,” and he used the story to illuminate certain convictions about the relationship between life and mind.
Opera is an incredible art form that tells a story through music and singing. Unlike a musical, opera singers do not typically use microphones to amplify their voices, and the music, played by the orchestra, is completely live.
Once the opera has been written and composed, the director (in this case Olivia Fuchs) and everyone else involved in the decision-making process will decide how they want to stage the production. This is where designer Nicola Turner steps in. In mid-January, Nicola and I sat down to talk over Zoom, where I was keen to learn more about this process. When we spoke, the team were literally about to start rehearsals with the cast just a few days later so I’m thankful she was able to take some time away from her busy schedule to chat with me.
Images below were taken during rehearsals in the days following this interview. Photos by Craig Fuller:
So let’s talk about Death in Venice. What first drew you to this project?
Well, I collaborate very closely with Olivia Fuchs, the director, and we've done The Macropolis Affair with the Welsh National Opera recently. And they then approached Olivia saying, you know, would she be interested in doing Death in Venice? So, she invited me to collaborate with her on it. And I mean, it's such a great piece. You know, I couldn't say no.
What do you love most about opera in general?
I think the combination of, well, the music is so intense. And so, the way of telling stories… it's quite a surreal way of telling a story with people just singing at the top of their voices on stage. But I think a lot of the operas are kind of based around universal themes of life, death, passion, you know, and likewise, Death in Venice really explores the kind of, you know, the inner turmoil of somebody, which I find so interesting. And it's a really interesting way of storytelling, I think, with the emotion that comes across in the music and then the images that you can create on stage. I think it's an interesting form.
Absolutely. I’ve read Death in Venice - the novella - and I’ve been learning how popular it was when it was first published. But since then, there's a lot of controversial themes that have sparked all sorts of critical debate. So I was wondering, in terms of this production, have you approached the story through a more contemporary lens or…?
We are setting it in period, you know, at the time, but kind of with a surreal twist. So we've kind of gone, not setting it in a realistic setting as it were, but really rather exploring the views through his mind, through his imagination, his dream, his creative block, his turmoil, those inner questionings he has and the kind of… the fights within his mind. We’re collaborating with a lighting designer and video artist that we've worked with before. So Sam, our video designer, went to Venice and actually took lots of videos, not only of kind of, you know, the buildings and architecture, but kind of close-ups of the dark waters in the canal and…the gondoliers oars just pushing through and the ripples and kind of images of the water and the beach and close-ups of things that actually then can give you that essence of a more abstract dream, as it were, in your mind.
It's going to be so interesting to see all these visuals. Will you be using some of those images on stage?
We’ve kind of done it so that it creates like a letterbox effect. And then at the end, the letterbox, when you have that final scene where Tadzio kind of goes off into the sea, the letterbox then becomes bigger and bigger until the whole of the back of the stage is filled up with the image of water happening. And we also are collaborating with No Fit State Circus. So it came from Olivia, really. There are moments in the opera where you normally have ballet dancers. And it's kind of Tadzio's family are normally done by ballet dancers. They're non-vocal roles, so they don't speak or sing. And so, Olivia was thinking circus. So we've collaborated with No Fit State, who are also based in Cardiff, as well as, obviously, the Welsh National Opera.
I'm pleased you said that, because I saw a Circus Consultant mentioned on the creative team list - it threw me a little bit - and I was sort of like, how does that tie in? But bringing this whole other element in; it sounds like it'll be really fantastic to see.
Yeah, it kind of then lifts them, you know. Tadzio can then kind of move around Ashcenbach’s head and kind of fly over him and move and…you know, it becomes more kind of ethereal and dreamlike in a sense. That kind of, you know, kind of springing up and taking the whole area above people's heads and the stage.
I love that it sounds so surreal.
Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I guess it's that kind of, yeah, the surrealness we were going for.
Could you tell me a little bit more about the collaborative process with Olivia and the other team members you've worked with before?
Okay, well, Olivia and I have worked together for over 20 years, collaborating on many different operas. And, you know, in a sense, as a director and designer, you create kind of a language. And the really exciting thing is coming to a piece and then just kind of sharing thoughts, ideas, emotions, kind of initial responses, and we kind of bat ideas backwards and forwards, and then we begin to share visual images, and then we begin to work in the model box and change it and pick it apart. And, you know, it's definitely kind of a period that grows. And I think a really good collaboration is when you come to the end and you think, God, whose idea was that? Or who's you’re not sure because it's come out of these kinds of conversations and, you know, things that have been happening. So, and it's really nice working with… I’ve worked with the lighting designer and video designer before. So that's really nice. And then the Welsh National Opera technical teams I've worked with again on and off for 20 years or so. So, you know, they're really talented, the costume department and the props department and the builders and everything. So, it's great to have that kind of technical support.
Yeah. And from your point of view as well, the trust's there already, I guess, because you know these people are very good at their jobs. I imagine that makes your life a bit less stressful.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Absolutely.
Was it difficult to choreograph with the cast members in terms of working alongside the circus elements and video being used onstage?
Well, the rehearsal will start this week. You can ask that in about a month's time. And Firenza, who's one of the directors of No Fit State, is going to direct the circus moments. And so, we have at Welsh National Opera… well there are two rehearsal rooms, one with the framework in to take all the flying rig for the circus movement and everything, and then a kind of simpler rehearsal room. So the circus will rehearse in one, the singers in the other, and then they'll come together in the circus space to kind of work together on the scenes that involve both.
It'd be interesting to be a fly on the wall and see how that all goes.
Yeah, I'm really looking forward to sitting in rehearsals soon.
With this being a touring show, how have you gone about designing the space? Which elements did you most have to consider in terms of adapting the production for different venues? I imagine that's quite a complicated process.
Yeah, it is. And a lot of it is not necessarily the difference in the size of stages, it's the difference in the sizes of the backstage areas. So when you're thinking of projection, for instance, I've been caught up for when suddenly you don't have so much depth at the back of the stage. And because of the circus elements in the piece, it really kind of led the design and we've kept it very simple with kind of moving items on stage and then we've created this truss and this rigging. The circus performers need 10 metres of height to do their kind of drops and silks and everything like that. So, that's available in all venues. But the technical teams at the Welsh National Opera are really good at, you know, I build a model and then I go and show them the model. And then we discuss, you know, how that's going to work and how that's going to tour, what kind of floor we need and things like that. So, yeah, they're very good.
Are you traveling with the show as it's touring the UK?
No. I only have to stay there until the opening night. Then it gets kind of taken on by all the different technical departments. I mean, I might go and see it in Bristol because it's so near home.
Is that difficult for you to almost kind of let go and let the rest of the team go on without you?
Yeah, sometimes. It's a bit like, you know, you're working so hard on things all together, you know, and you work and you work and you work, and then suddenly kind of the opening night happens and then they all just do it without you. And when you come back, they go, what are you doing here? You know, it's a bit like watching, you know, you're all working on a ship, and then the ship sails, and they kind of leave you behind by mistake, kind of thing, you know, it has that kind of feeling.
I imagine it’s difficult, but you obviously trust in your team. I'm excited just hearing you talking about all the various sort of visual elements and I'm really looking forward to seeing it. I'm attending the show in Bristol, so that'll be great.
In terms of visuals for opera, it is interesting to me how lots of us immediately think along the lines of epic ball gowns, big wigs, and sort of experimental makeup and those sort of costume elements. But can you tell me a little bit more about what we can expect in terms of costumes and makeup?
Okay, so for this, it's set around 1910, 1911, which was before the cholera outbreak in Venice or during the cholera outbreak. And we've kind of stuck to using that period as inspiration. And what I find really works on stage is where you have so many chorus members, there are ways of almost creating the set with the chorus, if you kind of use blocks of colour and then you've got so many people kind of moving around the stage. And so, for this, what we did is we dressed all the hotel guests, so all the visitors to Venice, using kind of whites and creams, so very kind of summery dresses, parasols. And then when the chorus then become the Venetians in town, where there's the cholera outbreak about to happen, all in very dark colours, so they almost become like shadows of the cholera and the death coming closer. And so, the blocks of colours like that. And then with Tadzio and his family to lift them out of that white crowd, we're adding hints of blue, so they've got different, you know, the blue sailor kind of look and the kind of stripes and different elements like that. And there are kind of pops of different things throughout. We have got some quite good hats, but not too much extreme makeup.
If Death in Venice is an audience member's first real visit to an opera, what do you hope they'll most take away from this experience?
I don't know, I guess I hope that they'd be kind of tempted to then come and see more opera. And I think it's really interesting, you know, doing this collaboration with No Fit State Circus, because I hope some of No Fit State Circus's audience comes to the opera, and then maybe some of the opera audience will see No Fit State Circus for the first time. So, both No Fit State and Welsh National Opera probably have quite a different audience range, so actually collaborating should bring kind of different audience members to stage. But I think, you know, with Olivia directing and with No Fit State in it, I think it would be an amazing first opera to experience. Do you go to the opera a lot?
I don't, I wish I could. I mean, I go to the theatre a lot, and I see plays and things, but this is actually going to be my first opera.
I don't know, we'll have to see what you think.
It was a wonderful surprise to be approached by the Welsh National Opera. I've reviewed books and mostly I speak to authors and booksellers, promote book campaigns, publishers, things like that. So it was very flattering to me. I did say in my emails, you know, I haven't been to the opera before but I'm very excited and I'm looking forward to sharing my first-time experience with others and hopefully sort of being able to create something that's informative and encourages others to give it a go.
Yeah! I really enjoyed reading The Magician by Torben, you know, about Thomas Mann's life. And I think it's really, I mean, it's a lovely read, that book anyway, but it's really interesting how kind of autobiographical Death in Venice really is to Thomas Mann's experience, you know.
Oh yeah, definitely. It's very autobiographical. I've come across that in my research. And the thing I really have realised is how controversial the themes are; obviously with the age difference and sexualisation of a young boy. So, it's going to be interesting to see the subtleties and how they come across on stage and through the music. I'm really looking forward to it.
The cast of Death in Venice includes Mark Le Broq as Gustav von Aschenbach, Roderick Williams as The Traveller/Old man, Alexander Chance as The Voice of Apollo and Anthony César as Tadzio.
The orchestra is conducted by Leo Hussain, and the production is directed by Olivia Fuchs, who has worked with a creative team including designer Nicola Turner, Lighting designer Robbie Butler, and Video designer Sam Sharples. Firenza Guidi and No Fit State have worked collaboratively in Circus design and direction, with Tom Rack who is credited as circus consultant with No Fit State.
Tickets are on sale now and the tour kicks off in Cardiff on 7th March, later travelling the UK with performances in Llandudno, Southampton, Oxford, Bristol and Birmingham. You can also find out more about Nicola and her work at https://www.nicolaturner.art/
Well, I collaborate very closely with Olivia Fuchs, the director, and we've done The Macropolis Affair with the Welsh National Opera recently. And they then approached Olivia saying, you know, would she be interested in doing Death in Venice? So, she invited me to collaborate with her on it. And I mean, it's such a great piece. You know, I couldn't say no.
What do you love most about opera in general?
I think the combination of, well, the music is so intense. And so, the way of telling stories… it's quite a surreal way of telling a story with people just singing at the top of their voices on stage. But I think a lot of the operas are kind of based around universal themes of life, death, passion, you know, and likewise, Death in Venice really explores the kind of, you know, the inner turmoil of somebody, which I find so interesting. And it's a really interesting way of storytelling, I think, with the emotion that comes across in the music and then the images that you can create on stage. I think it's an interesting form.
Absolutely. I’ve read Death in Venice - the novella - and I’ve been learning how popular it was when it was first published. But since then, there's a lot of controversial themes that have sparked all sorts of critical debate. So I was wondering, in terms of this production, have you approached the story through a more contemporary lens or…?
We are setting it in period, you know, at the time, but kind of with a surreal twist. So we've kind of gone, not setting it in a realistic setting as it were, but really rather exploring the views through his mind, through his imagination, his dream, his creative block, his turmoil, those inner questionings he has and the kind of… the fights within his mind. We’re collaborating with a lighting designer and video artist that we've worked with before. So Sam, our video designer, went to Venice and actually took lots of videos, not only of kind of, you know, the buildings and architecture, but kind of close-ups of the dark waters in the canal and…the gondoliers oars just pushing through and the ripples and kind of images of the water and the beach and close-ups of things that actually then can give you that essence of a more abstract dream, as it were, in your mind.
It's going to be so interesting to see all these visuals. Will you be using some of those images on stage?
We’ve kind of done it so that it creates like a letterbox effect. And then at the end, the letterbox, when you have that final scene where Tadzio kind of goes off into the sea, the letterbox then becomes bigger and bigger until the whole of the back of the stage is filled up with the image of water happening. And we also are collaborating with No Fit State Circus. So it came from Olivia, really. There are moments in the opera where you normally have ballet dancers. And it's kind of Tadzio's family are normally done by ballet dancers. They're non-vocal roles, so they don't speak or sing. And so, Olivia was thinking circus. So we've collaborated with No Fit State, who are also based in Cardiff, as well as, obviously, the Welsh National Opera.
I'm pleased you said that, because I saw a Circus Consultant mentioned on the creative team list - it threw me a little bit - and I was sort of like, how does that tie in? But bringing this whole other element in; it sounds like it'll be really fantastic to see.
Yeah, it kind of then lifts them, you know. Tadzio can then kind of move around Ashcenbach’s head and kind of fly over him and move and…you know, it becomes more kind of ethereal and dreamlike in a sense. That kind of, you know, kind of springing up and taking the whole area above people's heads and the stage.
I love that it sounds so surreal.
Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I guess it's that kind of, yeah, the surrealness we were going for.
Could you tell me a little bit more about the collaborative process with Olivia and the other team members you've worked with before?
Okay, well, Olivia and I have worked together for over 20 years, collaborating on many different operas. And, you know, in a sense, as a director and designer, you create kind of a language. And the really exciting thing is coming to a piece and then just kind of sharing thoughts, ideas, emotions, kind of initial responses, and we kind of bat ideas backwards and forwards, and then we begin to share visual images, and then we begin to work in the model box and change it and pick it apart. And, you know, it's definitely kind of a period that grows. And I think a really good collaboration is when you come to the end and you think, God, whose idea was that? Or who's you’re not sure because it's come out of these kinds of conversations and, you know, things that have been happening. So, and it's really nice working with… I’ve worked with the lighting designer and video designer before. So that's really nice. And then the Welsh National Opera technical teams I've worked with again on and off for 20 years or so. So, you know, they're really talented, the costume department and the props department and the builders and everything. So, it's great to have that kind of technical support.
Yeah. And from your point of view as well, the trust's there already, I guess, because you know these people are very good at their jobs. I imagine that makes your life a bit less stressful.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Absolutely.
Was it difficult to choreograph with the cast members in terms of working alongside the circus elements and video being used onstage?
Well, the rehearsal will start this week. You can ask that in about a month's time. And Firenza, who's one of the directors of No Fit State, is going to direct the circus moments. And so, we have at Welsh National Opera… well there are two rehearsal rooms, one with the framework in to take all the flying rig for the circus movement and everything, and then a kind of simpler rehearsal room. So the circus will rehearse in one, the singers in the other, and then they'll come together in the circus space to kind of work together on the scenes that involve both.
It'd be interesting to be a fly on the wall and see how that all goes.
Yeah, I'm really looking forward to sitting in rehearsals soon.
With this being a touring show, how have you gone about designing the space? Which elements did you most have to consider in terms of adapting the production for different venues? I imagine that's quite a complicated process.
Yeah, it is. And a lot of it is not necessarily the difference in the size of stages, it's the difference in the sizes of the backstage areas. So when you're thinking of projection, for instance, I've been caught up for when suddenly you don't have so much depth at the back of the stage. And because of the circus elements in the piece, it really kind of led the design and we've kept it very simple with kind of moving items on stage and then we've created this truss and this rigging. The circus performers need 10 metres of height to do their kind of drops and silks and everything like that. So, that's available in all venues. But the technical teams at the Welsh National Opera are really good at, you know, I build a model and then I go and show them the model. And then we discuss, you know, how that's going to work and how that's going to tour, what kind of floor we need and things like that. So, yeah, they're very good.
Are you traveling with the show as it's touring the UK?
No. I only have to stay there until the opening night. Then it gets kind of taken on by all the different technical departments. I mean, I might go and see it in Bristol because it's so near home.
Is that difficult for you to almost kind of let go and let the rest of the team go on without you?
Yeah, sometimes. It's a bit like, you know, you're working so hard on things all together, you know, and you work and you work and you work, and then suddenly kind of the opening night happens and then they all just do it without you. And when you come back, they go, what are you doing here? You know, it's a bit like watching, you know, you're all working on a ship, and then the ship sails, and they kind of leave you behind by mistake, kind of thing, you know, it has that kind of feeling.
I imagine it’s difficult, but you obviously trust in your team. I'm excited just hearing you talking about all the various sort of visual elements and I'm really looking forward to seeing it. I'm attending the show in Bristol, so that'll be great.
In terms of visuals for opera, it is interesting to me how lots of us immediately think along the lines of epic ball gowns, big wigs, and sort of experimental makeup and those sort of costume elements. But can you tell me a little bit more about what we can expect in terms of costumes and makeup?
Okay, so for this, it's set around 1910, 1911, which was before the cholera outbreak in Venice or during the cholera outbreak. And we've kind of stuck to using that period as inspiration. And what I find really works on stage is where you have so many chorus members, there are ways of almost creating the set with the chorus, if you kind of use blocks of colour and then you've got so many people kind of moving around the stage. And so, for this, what we did is we dressed all the hotel guests, so all the visitors to Venice, using kind of whites and creams, so very kind of summery dresses, parasols. And then when the chorus then become the Venetians in town, where there's the cholera outbreak about to happen, all in very dark colours, so they almost become like shadows of the cholera and the death coming closer. And so, the blocks of colours like that. And then with Tadzio and his family to lift them out of that white crowd, we're adding hints of blue, so they've got different, you know, the blue sailor kind of look and the kind of stripes and different elements like that. And there are kind of pops of different things throughout. We have got some quite good hats, but not too much extreme makeup.
If Death in Venice is an audience member's first real visit to an opera, what do you hope they'll most take away from this experience?
I don't know, I guess I hope that they'd be kind of tempted to then come and see more opera. And I think it's really interesting, you know, doing this collaboration with No Fit State Circus, because I hope some of No Fit State Circus's audience comes to the opera, and then maybe some of the opera audience will see No Fit State Circus for the first time. So, both No Fit State and Welsh National Opera probably have quite a different audience range, so actually collaborating should bring kind of different audience members to stage. But I think, you know, with Olivia directing and with No Fit State in it, I think it would be an amazing first opera to experience. Do you go to the opera a lot?
I don't, I wish I could. I mean, I go to the theatre a lot, and I see plays and things, but this is actually going to be my first opera.
I don't know, we'll have to see what you think.
It was a wonderful surprise to be approached by the Welsh National Opera. I've reviewed books and mostly I speak to authors and booksellers, promote book campaigns, publishers, things like that. So it was very flattering to me. I did say in my emails, you know, I haven't been to the opera before but I'm very excited and I'm looking forward to sharing my first-time experience with others and hopefully sort of being able to create something that's informative and encourages others to give it a go.
Yeah! I really enjoyed reading The Magician by Torben, you know, about Thomas Mann's life. And I think it's really, I mean, it's a lovely read, that book anyway, but it's really interesting how kind of autobiographical Death in Venice really is to Thomas Mann's experience, you know.
Oh yeah, definitely. It's very autobiographical. I've come across that in my research. And the thing I really have realised is how controversial the themes are; obviously with the age difference and sexualisation of a young boy. So, it's going to be interesting to see the subtleties and how they come across on stage and through the music. I'm really looking forward to it.
The cast of Death in Venice includes Mark Le Broq as Gustav von Aschenbach, Roderick Williams as The Traveller/Old man, Alexander Chance as The Voice of Apollo and Anthony César as Tadzio.
The orchestra is conducted by Leo Hussain, and the production is directed by Olivia Fuchs, who has worked with a creative team including designer Nicola Turner, Lighting designer Robbie Butler, and Video designer Sam Sharples. Firenza Guidi and No Fit State have worked collaboratively in Circus design and direction, with Tom Rack who is credited as circus consultant with No Fit State.
Tickets are on sale now and the tour kicks off in Cardiff on 7th March, later travelling the UK with performances in Llandudno, Southampton, Oxford, Bristol and Birmingham. You can also find out more about Nicola and her work at https://www.nicolaturner.art/